Info-Atari16 Digest Sun, 15 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 483 Today's Topics: Can I convert a supra 20m hd to something bigger? C compiler for sale EXPRESS (2 msgs) Gemini 1.2 (2 msgs) Help: MiNT and remote logins. Looking for term program... Software For Sale (MW C, Fontz, Hyperfont, TW DTP) Super Charger 286? (4 msgs) Wanted: Trip-a-tron Weekly Posting of New Stuff Why is fscanf function of Mark Williams "C" so slow? Word Processor Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 Sep 91 05:48:44 GMT From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!bmaraldo@ariz ona.edu (Commander Brett Maraldo) Subject: Can I convert a supra 20m hd to something bigger? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have a Supra 20 meg hard disk that I've had since 1985. I want to know if i can simply plug another bigger hard disk into it? If not, is there some way to modify the controller board so that I can? Brett Maraldo -- -------- Unit 36 Research --------- "Alien Technology Today" bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca {uunet!clyde!utai}!watserv1!bmaraldo ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 91 20:34:53 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!male!thepond!wright @arizona.edu (Bruce Wright) Subject: C compiler for sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu FOR SALE: LASER-C $125.00 C development system y Megamax Inc. Micro-C shell $ 15.00 by Beckmyer Development Tools If you are intersted, make me an offer...I just might take it. I will pay the shipping if both are purchased. Bruce Wright Sr. Manufacturing Engineer Corporate Logistics Technical Services MIL21-314 (408) 922-5054 ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 91 20:04:56 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve @arizona.edu (Steve Yelvington) Subject: EXPRESS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu [In article <684737480.0@fquest.FidoNet>, Mark.Spacek@fquest.FidoNet.Org (Mark Spacek) writes ... ] > A local ST board is looking at the possibility of imported, and maybe > exporting messages from(/to maybe) a couple of Usenet newsgroups. I was just > wondering if anyone out there might be doing it already and be able to offer > some helpful suggestions. Or any advice on the subject. We have an old copy > of the Mailtruk source we are looking at now. Any help/advice would be > appreciated. Oh, I guess I forgot to mention that the BBS is running Express! > ST and I think we can manage a feed, we just need to get the software patched > in... Thanks in advance for any help..... Some STadel BBS sites have been doing this for years using STadel's (free) UUCP-related software. Usenet over UUCP works like this: UUCP copies two files to the destination machine. One is a data file containing either a message or a batch of messages. The other is a command file that is interpreted by a remote-execution facility at the destination site. The command to process Usenet news is ``rnews.'' The accompanying message or batch file is processed by rnews and stored, forwarded, vaporized, or whatever is appropriate. I'm not aware of any software to convert Usenet messages to whatever proprietary format Express uses. If you want to write your own rnews-equivalent, you can start with the Internet RFC documents that describe the standard format of Usenet news messages. The format is fairly simple and involves only plain text. (The Express side you'll have to figure out for yourself.) Internet RFCs are available by anonymous FTP from nic.ddn.mil or by email from various mail servers; I think the last time I fetched such data, I got it from info@sh.cs.net. Try sending a message containing the word ``help.'' ---- Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota (USA) steve@thelake.mn.org Member, Burned Out Newspapercreatures Guild ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 00:47:16 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-b c!jonh!jhenders@arizona.edu (John Henders) Subject: EXPRESS To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In , Steve Yelvington writes: > >Some STadel BBS sites have been doing this for years using STadel's (free) >UUCP-related software. > >Usenet over UUCP works like this: > < How UUCP works deleted. > You could also use the Mercury UUCP distrbuted last year on comp.sources.a.st. The easiest way would probably be to set the uucp up as a daily process if you can do that with express. Then have the users able to call rn as a door program, or whatever express calls external programs. With the source code for rn, you could probably redirect it to the modem without much trouble. Elm could probably also work in this way. Trying to convert the RFC type messages to express type, then back again would no be a good idea, as the potential for message mangling is very high. -- John Henders jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca Vancouver,B.C or ubc.cs!van-bc!jonh!jhenders ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 01:48:46 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!fis cher-michael@arizona.edu (Michael Fischer) Subject: Gemini 1.2 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <3469@tamsun.TAMU.EDU> n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes: >Can someone tell me: > > - Where is Gemini 1.2 in the atari archive at umich.edu? /atari/utilities/desktop/gemini12.lzh -- ================================================== | Michael Fischer | ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 02:10:35 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p itt.edu!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko) Subject: Gemini 1.2 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Gemini 1.2 can be found at atari.archive.umich.edu in the /atari/utilities/desktop directory under the filename gemini12.lzh (hope this helps)... Robert Anisko rjast1@cis.unix.pitt.edu ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 91 19:55:25 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!bcc.ac.uk!ucacmsu@uunet.uu.net (Mr Stephen R Usher) Subject: Help: MiNT and remote logins. To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I'm in the middle of writting a Unix type init/getty/login suite for MiNT, but have suspended development until MiNT 0.9 arrives because of a problem with terminal I/O from the serial port. Steve Addresses:- JANET ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or ford@tharr.uucp ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 17:35:25 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uflor ida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!upsilon!boyd@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Looking for term program... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , jls@dynasoft.mn.org writes: > > Unfortunately it doesn't work with the most recient version of Flash >(it's an -old- accessory) and the improvements in Flash since it was >compatable with the accessory are important enough that I doubt you'd >want to go back to that version. > >--- >John L. Stanley >Software Development Consultant / Dynasoft Systems Whoa there!! Is there a newer version of Flash that 1.6!!?! I heard a rumor about a 2.0 release, but have not seen any ads for it. I like Flash a lot, and would be very interested in a new release (I hope they fixed the "no underline with TurboST" bug). I have Flash 1.6, the latest version that I know of, and it works fine with the Kermit acc. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 05:46:27 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!bmaraldo@arizona.edu (Commander Brett Maraldo) Subject: Software For Sale (MW C, Fontz, Hyperfont, TW DTP) To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Mark Williams C v3.0.9 - includes mater disks and 828 page manual/refernce guide. $100 US Michtron Hyperfont - outline based GDOS font development system. Original disks and manual. $40US Neocept FONTZ - GEM font editor. original disks and manual. $20US Prices negotiable. email or call 519 742 0370 Brett Maraldo ps. Also, I am distributing a very well organized and documented TeX/Metafont distribution. It included: - the latest version of TeX and Metafont - LaTeX, MuTeX (Music typestting) - Wasy (nifty fonts) - associated files - a pd dvi viewer - full set of organized fonts - Gentle Introduction to TeX by: Michael Doob - optional TeX Book, Metafont Book, and LaTex manuals (extra charge) The set is on floppies and is fully unarchived and organized into folders with installation manuals describing various set-ups and required files. The distribution is variable in price depending on your needs (full system? all the fonts? etc). Contact me for details: bmaraldo@watserv1.uwaterloo.ca Design Text and Printing 38 York Street Kitchener, Ontario N2G1T2 Canada tel 519 742 0370 -- -------- Unit 36 Research --------- "Alien Technology Today" bmaraldo@watserv1.UWaterloo.ca {uunet!clyde!utai}!watserv1!bmaraldo ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 91 19:45:33 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.columbia.e du!cunixa.cc.columbia.edu!cmm1@arizona.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep13.171334.20553@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu> kclenden@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Kevin Clendenien) writes: >In article <1991Sep13.132259.11507@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: >>>something like SuperCharger. The IBM emulators are designed to be >>>attractive to Atari users who already have everything they need >>>except an 80x86 chip. >> >>I don't agree with you. Here in NY, you can buy an XT laptop >>with 640K RAM and 2 floppies for $399 and for about $300 more >>you can get a 286 laptop with a hardrive. If I had any real >>need to use a MS-DOS machine I would probably opt to buy one >>of these machines rather than deal with all the hassles of putting >>one of these "sorta compatible" boards in an ST. The cost is >>almost the same so why bother hacking up your ST? >Well, Chrisie, you weren't reading my append very closely. I'll try >to simplify things for you. Let's say that I have an Atari ST with Are you always such a condescending weenie or do you just feel lucky today? I noticed you tried the same bullsh*t with the last post too. So lighten up "Kevie" and realize that there are people out there with greater aspirations than a 286 with 2.5meg RAM, 85 meg hard disk and **640X200 resolution** plugged into an 8mhz 68000-based I/O bus.... >2.5MB of memory, an 85M harddrive, and a color monitor. For $400 >I can buy a SuperCharger (plugs into the DMA port so I don't even >have to worry about installing it.) This would give me an XT with >2.5MB of memory, an 85M harddrive and a CGA color. You could not >spend $400 and get an XT with 2.5MB of memory, an 85M harddrive and >CGA color. As the last line of my append stated, the IBM emulators I would personally rather spend that $400 on a laptop that is going to be much more compatible that I can put in my briefcase and use on my business trips. >for the Atari ST are really most attractive to people who already >have all the peripherals they'll need on their ST. As far as >compatibility goes, there's no reason why SuperCharger should not >be as IBM compatible as Tandy computers. That is a whole other can of worms. People who spend ridiculous amounts of money for Tandy's computers deserve what they get... :) Skoal, Chris --------------+---------------------------------------------------------- Chris Mauritz |Homebrewing: The only hobby perfectly tailored for | anal retentive alcoholics. :-) --------------| (ripped off from someone on the net...) ------------------------------ Date: 13 Sep 91 20:33:12 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ox.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbi a.edu!bronze!silver!kclenden@arizona.edu (Kevin Clendenien) Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Sep13.194533.5505@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz) writes: > >Are you always such a condescending weenie or do you just feel >lucky today? I noticed you tried the same bullsh*t with the >last post too. So lighten up "Kevie" and realize that there >are people out there with greater aspirations than a 286 >with 2.5meg RAM, 85 meg hard disk and **640X200 resolution** >plugged into an 8mhz 68000-based I/O bus.... > .. > >I would personally rather spend that $400 on a laptop that is >going to be much more compatible that I can put in my briefcase >and use on my business trips. > Ooooh! Chrisie called me a weenie. I'm gonna tell! Lighten up Chrisie. Your posts have insinuated that NOONE would get any use out of an IBM emulator for the Atari. I've merely been disagreeing with you. Sure, some people want more than a 286 with 2.5Meg of memory and 600x200 color graphics. However, there are people out there who are perfectly happy with their Atari, who just want a little freedom to run an IBM program occasionally. Compatibility is a relative matter. If what I want to run works on the IBM emulator then I consider it IBM compatible. What works on SuperCharger? Lots of stuff. DOS 3.3, DOS 5.0. dBase, Lotus, WordPerfect... The list goes on. I work with IBM equipment, and people using IBM equipment everyday. My experience indicates that 99% of the software that gets used on the IBM in an academic office environment will work on SuperCharger. You keep making claims about how an XT would be more compatible. Who cares if it's more compatible if the things you want to run work on SuperCharger? -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- kclenden@silver.bacs.indiana.edu Kevin Clendenien BLAST BBS - (812) 332-0573 BLAST member "I want someone like you, only nicer." ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 06:38:53 GMT From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu You using your Daddy's account again Kevie..? Grow up a little and realize that cutsie personal attacks don't get you much respect... >You keep making claims about how an XT would be >more compatible. Who cares if it's more compatible if the things >you want to run work on SuperCharger? Until the day you download an application you want to run, and it won't run on an "emulator"... Obviously QEMM386 won't run on an 8088 XT...it's *designed* for a '386, just as a TT program won't run on an ST.. The point is, why spend an almost equivalent amount of money on an "emulator" that might run *some* of the applications you want, when the "real thing" costs about the same...? Why limit yourself to the restrictive features of the "emulator" when you can easily add VGA graphics, High Density disk drives, and all the peripheral devices that just plug into the XT buss in a "true" XT...? An upgrade from an XT to an AT involves swapping out the motherboard for a cost of about $79... how much would it cost to upgrade a SuperCharger to an AT...? The ONLY reasonable argument I've heard for using an emulator on an ST is not having the physical space for two different complete computer systems. Cost and capability are NOT good arguments for going with an emulator... BobR ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 15:14:05 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p itt.edu!gvlf3.gvl.unisys.com!tredysvr!cellar!darling@arizona.edu (Thomas Darling) Subject: Super Charger 286? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu kclenden@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Kevin Clendenien) writes: > In article <1991Sep13.194533.5505@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> cmm1@cunixa.cc.colu > > > >Are you always such a condescending weenie or do you just feel > > Ooooh! Chrisie called me a weenie. I'm gonna tell! Lighten up Give it a rest, kids. This is starting to look like one of the Amiga news- groups. ~ darling@cellar.UUCP \\\ Thomas Darling * record production * dance re-mixing uunet!cellar!darling \\\ Fact HQ Studio * The Cellar BBS:215/336-9503 * FACT v ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 17:49:14 GMT From: europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!upsilon!boyd@uun et.uu.net (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Wanted: Trip-a-tron To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Heehee, after my success with Little Computer People, I thought I might as well ask. I have read about Trip-a-Tron in british magazines, and here on the net. It looks like something I would be into owning. Unfortunetely I have been unable to locate a copy stateside (I made the rounds of the 1-800 numbers). Does anyone have a copy for sale? Does anyone know where to purchase a copy in the states? Any brits want to try to mail it to me (for suitable bucks, of course)? For those that are not familiar with the product, it is a graphic demo creator type program. It was written by the same guy that did Llammatron. The graphics are incredible. Also, if any 8-biters are familiar with Colorspace, this is sub-titled Colorspace II. This description does not do the program justice, but I am unsure as to just how to describe it. It is very unique. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 09:25:47 GMT From: umich!terminator!usenet@yale.arpa (Atari Archive Robot) Subject: Weekly Posting of New Stuff To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 Sep 8 11:51 . drwxrwxr-x jon 4608 Sep 8 12:15 ./games drwxrwxr-x jon 1536 Sep 8 12:15 ./demos -rw-r--r-- weiner 3004 Sep 8 12:15 ./demos/Index drwxrwxr-x jon 2048 Sep 8 11:22 ./archivers -rw-rw-r-- weiner 26624 Sep 8 11:22 ./archivers/auto_501.lzh -rw-rw-r-- weiner 8430 Sep 8 11:22 ./archivers/ice_240.lzh -rw-rw-r-- weiner 39434 Sep 8 11:22 ./archivers/lzh201d.lzh -rw-rw-r-- weiner 3239 Sep 8 11:27 ./archivers/Index drwxrwxr-x jon 6144 Sep 8 11:32 ./utilities -rw-r----- weiner 3099 Sep 8 11:32 ./utilities/autodate.arc -rw-rw-r-- weiner 30318 Sep 8 11:29 ./utilities/cpx_mdls.lzh -rw-r--r-- weiner 10887 Sep 8 11:33 ./utilities/Index drwxrwxr-x jon 2560 Sep 8 17:09 ./magazines/streport -rw-r--r-- weiner 51070 Sep 8 17:09 ./magazines/streport/str736.txt.Z drwxrwxr-x jon 2048 Sep 8 17:09 ./magazines/znet -rw-r--r-- weiner 30568 Sep 8 17:09 ./magazines/znet/znet9137.txt.Z -rw-rw-r-- weiner 4003 Sep 8 11:21 ./applications/Index drwxrwxr-x weiner 1024 Sep 8 11:20 ./applications/math -rw-r--r-- weiner 90820 Sep 8 11:20 ./applications/math/gplot.arc drwxrwxr-x jon 512 Sep 8 11:28 ./cli -rw-rw-r-- weiner 101024 Sep 8 11:28 ./cli/bash108d2.zoo -rw-rw-r-- weiner 587 Sep 8 11:28 ./cli/Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 109021 Sep 8 11:34 ./Index drwxr-xr-x weiner 1536 Sep 8 11:18 ./dc -rw-r--r-- weiner 3933 Sep 8 11:18 ./dc/dcdrpdtr.arc -rw-r--r-- weiner 79327 Sep 8 11:41 ./ls-lR.Z -rw-rw-r-- weiner 50812 Sep 8 11:34 ./CompInd.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 Sep 9 09:14 . -rw-rw-r-- weiner 110258 Sep 9 09:13 ./Index drwxr-xr-x weiner 1536 Sep 9 09:07 ./dc -rw-r--r-- weiner 1316 Sep 9 09:07 ./dc/Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 51345 Sep 9 09:14 ./CompInd.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 Sep 11 22:45 . drwxrwxr-x jon 6144 Sep 11 22:42 ./utilities -rw-r--r-- weiner 10953 Sep 11 22:43 ./utilities/Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 66200 Sep 11 22:42 ./utilities/ren.lzh drwxrwxr-x jon 3072 Sep 11 22:42 ./diskutils -rw-rw-r-- weiner 5714 Sep 11 22:43 ./diskutils/Index lrwxrwxrwx weiner 20 Sep 11 22:42 ./diskutils/ren.lzh -> ../utilities/ren.lzh -rw-rw-r-- weiner 110380 Sep 11 22:44 ./Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 51373 Sep 11 22:45 ./CompInd.Z drwxrwxr-x daemon 1024 Sep 13 09:02 . -rw-rw-r-- weiner 110397 Sep 13 09:02 ./Index -rw-r--r-- weiner 1333 Sep 13 09:02 ./dc/Index -rw-rw-r-- weiner 51380 Sep 13 09:02 ./CompInd.Z ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 17:59:45 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!harrier.ukc.ac.uk!hobby.ukc.ac.uk!wabe@uunet.uu.net (W.A.B.Evans) Subject: Why is fscanf function of Mark Williams "C" so slow? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I have noticed that if I compile anything with MWC which involves reading floating point numbers from a file - using their fscanf() function - (by the way I last updated to Version 3.0.6 of MWC). Identical code compiled with Sozobon's fscanf() runs about 10 times faster. Unfortunately although I have Sozobon's sourcecodes I cannot incorporate their fscanf into my MWC library "libc.a" - since Sozobon's fscanf() is not "self-contained" i.e. calls many more primitive subroutines. Also Mark Williams' "doubles" are genuine 8-byte wheras Sozobon's are same as "floats" i.e. 4 bytes - but this CANNOT explain the ENORMOUS difference in speed I experience. I have not heard anyone else mention this - Have I got a few bits wrong in my MWC library file "libc.a" or should I be setting some buffer to a higher value (I cannot see any reference to any such buffer in my MWC manual which, admittedly, is only Version 2.something - as I upgraded) or am I not doing something else??? For virtually all else MWC's performance is par excellence. Any hints gratefully received, W. Alan B. Evans [ wabe@ukc.ac.uk ] ------------------------------ Date: 14 Sep 91 17:58:25 GMT From: europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!gatech!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!upsilon!boyd@uun et.uu.net (Mickey Boyd) Subject: Word Processor To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article , tony@grafted.UUCP (anthony lewis) writes: >HI all. > Just wondering if there is a good GEM based WP out there in PD or >shareware land. ( something that uses GEMINI would be perfect, will deal >whit the german docs.... ). Thanks. > Tony. > >-- >anthony lewis >The Grafted Branch BBS >317-881-4369 >internet: tony@grafted.UUCP >uucp: ..!uunet!grafted.UUCP!tony > -= newsfeeds available, contact robert@towers.rn.com =- I suggest you get a copy of ST-Writer Elite. It is somewhat GEM based, and many folks prefer it over any other ST wp (I am not personally one of them, but it is a fine piece of work). It is PD, and is available in several languages. It is loosely based on the old Atariwriter word processor for the 8-bits, but is of course much nicer. I have a copy because I occasionally run into a doc file that was made by it (it also pays to have a copy of 1st Word for the same reason). It is available from several places (including atari.archive), but I recommend that you buy it from the Current Notes PD library. The reason for this is that when a new version comes out, you can send the disk in and get it updated for free (this is the only PD library that I know of that offers this service). My views on the magazine are legendary on this group, so I won't go through that spiel (just get a subscription!!). Oh, I seem to remember that this program is also available in a huge text visually impaired version. Kind of neat. -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ." email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************